eBay

sapphyres-designer-jewellery · ‎07-29-2025

This has come up in other threads, and always turns into a huge argument. I'm not here to debate whether or not you're allowed to ship this way, just want to discuss with people who do ship goods as lettermail.

I had an interesting experience at the post office. I was sending a greeting card and she flexed my package to see if there was anything inside (other than printed matter/paper). There was no one in line behind me so I was asking what was going on, and got some interesting feedback.

Apparently, as per the postal agent at the Shoppers Drug Mart I went to, people are all the time trying to slip goods into letter mail. The one thing I forgot to ask at the time is whether or not they're using bubble mailers to do it (where it's obvious) of if it's more sneaky things in paper envelopes, but apparently Canada Post is turning things back that contain goods.

So what I was told is the people who are most guilty of using lettermail to send goods international are the trading card (or sports card) group, and it's the top loaders that are calling attention to what's inside the package. Apparently when my letter was flexed, if it had a top loader in it with a trading card that would have been rigid in the middle and not flexed quite so well. When Canada Post catches it, they put a sticker on it and send it back. The postal clerk said customers are always coming in angry about their stuff being returned, so as a matter of pratice she flexes anything that isn't obviously a sheet of paper to see if there's anything hiding inside.

There's another post office I frequent and the manager there (it's also at Shoppers Drug Mart) has been there 30 years. His attitude is that if you send goods as letter mail and Canada Post catches you, that's on you, he takes no efforts to screen what people are dropping off (I imagine the letter people are using stamps anyway and just putting it in the out bin at the post office). He said he's not going to dicker with a customer about a collectible stamp or postcard being put in an envelope and shipped as a letter. Even the agent where I was at today told me if the package flexes and you're shipping merchandise that is nothing more than paper, she'll let it pass (so think of stamp sellers who are mailing one stamp on a card in a letter).

Would like to hear experiences from people who've shipped this way, or what they know from Canada Post about shipping this way. Not interested in hearing that it's not legal, I already know that, I use Stallion Express to ship stuff with USPS, and we've used eBay Standard Envelope with USPS. The encounter at the post office got me thinking because this comes up in other threads, often times people say "start a thread on this", since I have two cents to contribute I thought I'd do that today.

C.

dinomitesales · ‎07-29-2025

Canada Post repeatedly reminds post offices of the rules regarding International Letter-post, to the tune of several memos per year. They specifically call out things like "trading cards in plastic sleeves" as not being allowed. The service is only intended for letters, documents, and document-like enclosures such as photographs or the like. That being said, you will receive a different response at pretty much every post office in the country, as there is an extreme variance in the level of knowledge and compliance amongst workers at authorized dealer post offices.

There is no directive from Canada Post to have the clerks bend or flex the envelope - that is a decision being made by the staff at your local post office, which is fine, they can do that if they want. At the post office I work at, my process is to simply ask the customer if there is anything other than documents inside the envelope if it appears bulky or is in a bubble envelope. A bubble envelope is typically a dead giveaway that there might be something of value in the envelope (thereby making it "goods" and ineligible for transport without a customs declaration), as most people just mailing documents don't need to protect them with bubble cushioning. If they confirm it's just documents, and there's nothing suspicious like a giant bulge in the middle, then I'll sent it off as Letter-post; ultimately, if they item is returned to them by Canada Post or the US CBP then that's on them.

This all being said, I will still ship low-value paper-based items internationally via Letter-post. It is technically not allowed, but I'm not using bubble envelopes and my shipments just look like regular letters. I just toss them in the mailbox and let it go. Have never had one returned to me. Things like trading cards, video game manuals, postcards, etc. The more your item just looks like a regular letter, the more likely it is that it will pass through just fine. If the clerk or manager at your local post office is giving you grief then just bypass them by putting it in the mailbox. Worst case scenario it will come back to you, but it probably won't unless you're sending something that is very obviously not a letter (like video games or DVDs or something).

mrdutch1001 · ‎07-29-2025

It is my understanding that if "disguised" merchandise/goods in lettermail destined for outside Canada, can be detected and/or determined to be other than paper through feel and/or other means, it may very well be rejected before it is processed for leaving Canada...

sapphyres-designer-jewellery · ‎07-29-2025

@dinomitesales wrote:
Canada Post repeatedly reminds post offices of the rules regarding International Letter-post, to the tune of several memos per year. They specifically call out things like "trading cards in plastic sleeves" as not being allowed. The service is only intended for letters, documents, and document-like enclosures such as photographs or the like. That being said, you will receive a different response at pretty much every post office in the country, as there is an extreme variance in the level of knowledge and compliance amongst workers at authorized dealer post offices.

There is no directive from Canada Post to have the clerks bend or flex the envelope - that is a decision being made by the staff at your local post office, which is fine, they can do that if they want. At the post office I work at, my process is to simply ask the customer if there is anything other than documents inside the envelope if it appears bulky or is in a bubble envelope. A bubble envelope is typically a dead giveaway that there might be something of value in the envelope (thereby making it "goods" and ineligible for transport without a customs declaration), as most people just mailing documents don't need to protect them with bubble cushioning. If they confirm it's just documents, and there's nothing suspicious like a giant bulge in the middle, then I'll sent it off as Letter-post; ultimately, if they item is returned to them by Canada Post or the US CBP then that's on them.

This all being said, I will still ship low-value paper-based items internationally via Letter-post. It is technically not allowed, but I'm not using bubble envelopes and my shipments just look like regular letters. I just toss them in the mailbox and let it go. Have never had one returned to me. Things like trading cards, video game manuals, postcards, etc. The more your item just looks like a regular letter, the more likely it is that it will pass through just fine. If the clerk or manager at your local post office is giving you grief then just bypass them by putting it in the mailbox. Worst case scenario it will come back to you, but it probably won't unless you're sending something that is very obviously not a letter (like video games or DVDs or something).

Thanks for your detailed reply, this was the kind of input I was looking for. If I sell a single stamp on a little card, I'll put it in a #10 slap some stamps on and mail it. Most of my shipments are Canada or Stallion (via tracked post), but I do on the odd occasion get an international (non-USA) order whereby an international stamp in a #10 makes the most sense.

Even the clerk at the post office I was at today (who flexed my envelopes) told me if the stuff inside is paper, she doesn't care if it's goods, as long as it's paper and behaves like a sheet of paper inside the envelope. I did tell her I occasional mail postcards and postage stamps and that my letters usually contain a business card. The clerk had no problem with any of this and she appears to be a little more strict at enforcing than at other post offices I went to.

The bubble mailer - you're right, a dead give away. I don't ship anything in a bubble mailer as a letter (except within Canada where it's allowed). If it goes in a bubble mailer it's going to go either USPS with Stallion, or by a tracked service (like NL Post through Stallion). I've had customers ask me to put coins and tokens as a letter and I just tell them it's not allowed, end of discussion. They'll either buy it from me or they won't, I don't concern myself with that.

C.

sapphyres-designer-jewellery · ‎07-29-2025

@mrdutch1001 wrote:
It is my understanding that if "disguised" merchandise/goods in lettermail destined for outside Canada, can be detected and/or determined to be other than paper through feel and/or other means, it may very well be rejected before it is processed for leaving Canada...

That's kind of what the clerk today was doing, trying to detect if it contained merchandise before accepting it. She said something I don't quite understand about how the letters come back to her post office and she has to explain to the customer. I'm not clear on whether CP sends the mail back to her to deal with, or if it went back to the customer and the customer brought it in to complain. I just know the customers are complaining and the #1 culprit on these is trading cards (with top loaders).

I suppose if it's detected after it leaves the post office then they'll send it back. Supposedly there's a special sticker they put on the packages to send it back (the clerk told me that today). Having never had something sent back to me I haven't seen this before. I just remember the stickers we used to apply if a letter was underpaid (when I worked at a retail outlet 20 years ago I used to apply those on mailings that were left with me when the customer refused to top up to the correct postage, I'd tell them it was going to come back, they said they didn't care they'd take their chances, and as soon as they left the post office I applied the sticker and returned them). I liked working at a postal outlet but did not like the host business (a 7-Eleven) where the outlet was located and quit as soon as I found a better job.

C.

dinomitesales · ‎07-29-2025

@sapphyres-designer-jewellery wrote:
That's kind of what the clerk today was doing, trying to detect if it contained merchandise before accepting it. She said something I don't quite understand about how the letters come back to her post office and she has to explain to the customer. I'm not clear on whether CP sends the mail back to her to deal with, or if it went back to the customer and the customer brought it in to complain. I just know the customers are complaining and the #1 culprit on these is trading cards (with top loaders).

I suppose if it's detected after it leaves the post office then they'll send it back. Supposedly there's a special sticker they put on the packages to send it back (the clerk told me that today). Having never had something sent back to me I haven't seen this before.

The letter isn't being sent back to the post office, it's being returned to the sender. I've had people come in and complain about this before, with the item in hand. A sticker is placed over the sender's address basically saying "this is ineligible for being sent by Letter-post. Please re-send it via Small Packet service" (paraphrasing).

I don't know who is the one doing the detecting, applying the sticker, and authorizing the return to sender. I suppose it could be done at any point in it's journey - either from an employee at a sorting plant catching it, or from US CBP catching it and just handing it back to Canada Post.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎07-30-2025

@dinomitesales wrote:
@sapphyres-designer-jewellery wrote:
That's kind of what the clerk today was doing, trying to detect if it contained merchandise before accepting it. She said something I don't quite understand about how the letters come back to her post office and she has to explain to the customer. I'm not clear on whether CP sends the mail back to her to deal with, or if it went back to the customer and the customer brought it in to complain. I just know the customers are complaining and the #1 culprit on these is trading cards (with top loaders).

I suppose if it's detected after it leaves the post office then they'll send it back. Supposedly there's a special sticker they put on the packages to send it back (the clerk told me that today). Having never had something sent back to me I haven't seen this before.
The letter isn't being sent back to the post office, it's being returned to the sender. I've had people come in and complain about this before, with the item in hand. A sticker is placed over the sender's address basically saying "this is ineligible for being sent by Letter-post. Please re-send it via Small Packet service" (paraphrasing).

I don't know who is the one doing the detecting, applying the sticker, and authorizing the return to sender. I suppose it could be done at any point in it's journey - either from an employee at a sorting plant catching it, or from US CBP catching it and just handing it back to Canada Post.

Curious to know going forward how they are treating documents or photos in envelopes marked do not bend with cardboard reinforcement with no declared value? There are still some folks shipping actual prints and signed documents by mail. And don't even want to consider no charge samples. Whole other can of worms.

easoss · ‎07-30-2025

I had personal photos I was sending to a friend in the US returned to me because I put them in a bubble envelope with a small cardboard to prevent bending. It's become ridiculous to deal with Canada Post. No wonder they're broke.

john_koenig99 · ‎07-30-2025

@easoss wrote:
I had personal photos I was sending to a friend in the US returned to me because I put them in a bubble envelope with a small cardboard to prevent bending. It's become ridiculous to deal with Canada Post. No wonder they're broke.

Well, the question is: did you disclose it? Or you sent it via mailbox and not through an agent?

I wonder if making a full disclosure at the counter, that in fact the envelope contains personal items and not trading good would make a difference.

reallynicestamps · ‎07-30-2025

It's illegal.

People do it anyway.

Since it is a stamped envelope*, don't hand it in at the counter, drop it in the mailbox outside the PO.

*You can't buy a label for Lettermail.

reallynicestamps · ‎07-30-2025

I have my doubts about bubble mailers for "paper" items like stamps.

What I want to prevent is my package from being folded and shoved through the mail slot.

So when I am shipping stamps or photographs, I use a stiffener usually cardboard, that makes it difficult to fold the envelope.

easoss · ‎07-30-2025

It doesn't matter for me. Mr local PO the counter guy doesn't ask. I wrote "Photos do not bend" on the envelope. Someone at the sorting centre assumed otherwise. It's a s**t show for sure.

fergua3 · ‎07-30-2025

Back when this situation of CP strictly enforing the rules began, many, many months ago now, i had one item returned to me. It came to ME not the post office where i shipped it and it had a huge sticker on it saying i had to ship it as a package. It did NOT explain why i had to ship it as a package, just that i had to.

The item was a folded paper poster in a 10 x13 envelope with a piece of stiff carboard for backing/protection.

Ever since then i've had to send the posters as packages. Cost me so much extra for shipping that it became barely worth the effort, so i stopped restocking new posters and am now just clearing out my remaining inventory, which will probably take a while still.

easoss · ‎07-30-2025

I can totally relate to your situation. For me it's smaller magazines and comics. Basically the lower end business has been destroyed (the $5-$10 item) as it's no longer feasible to mail. Real shame and is why my store subscription won't be renewed at the end of the year.

busybeas_books · ‎07-30-2025

I use lettermail for my advert. pages, sandwiched in 2 sheets of light cardstock. Never got any returned in 20+ years. A few years ago I changed the 'Photos Do Not Bend' printed when I print out the address, to 'Please Do Not Bend'. A lady at local post office suggested that! Postmistress, is that a word?

sapphyres-designer-jewellery · ‎07-30-2025

@busybeas_books wrote:
I use lettermail for my advert. pages, sandwiched in 2 sheets of light cardstock. Never got any returned in 20+ years. A few years ago I changed the 'Photos Do Not Bend' printed when I print out the address, to 'Please Do Not Bend'. A lady at local post office suggested that! Postmistress, is that a word?

My English teacher 25 years ago told a story about how he shipped a package with a photo and wrote "photos do not bend" and the response written on the package was "oh yea?" with a big bend right in the middle. The lesson was how the order of words and punctuation mattered. Not sure if this was a true story or just illustrating a point for the purpose of the class.

C.

fergua3 · ‎07-31-2025

i've always written "please do not bend" on the posters i sent out. Since day one of shipping them. While it may have helped them arrive in better condition to the buyer, it did not help me from having one rejected by CP and needing to be re-sent as a package.

If someone is trying to sneak something through via lettermail i wouldn't count on writing 'please do not bend' as being any help....though it may not hurt either.

Definitly don't write 'photos, please do not bend'... that will probably be rejected as photos, rightly or wrongly, are considered 'goods' and need to be sent as a package.

Use a plain envelope, no ebay logos, hand written addresses, no stiff cardboard inside, not too thick etc and it would probably have a decent chance of getting through as lettermail. But you'll be holding your breath on each an every one.

dinomitesales · ‎07-31-2025

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Curious to know going forward how they are treating documents or photos in envelopes marked do not bend with cardboard reinforcement with no declared value? There are still some folks shipping actual prints and signed documents by mail. And don't even want to consider no charge samples. Whole other can of worms.

There's no reason why a rigid mailer would raise any flags. Rigid mailers are a common method of sending documents of importance so they don't get bent; Canada Post themselves sell rigid document mailers specifically for the purpose of mailing Lettermail/Letter-post, as do many other retailers and postal services.

They're only going to scrutinize it if there's something that leads them to believe there might be goods of value inside. For example, having a suspicious business name as a return address; having stickers or personalized markings on the exterior of the envelope indicating the contents might contain a purchase; using eBay tape or eBay branded rigid mailers; or reinforcing the rigid mailer with something even more rigid so it can't be flexed even a little bit.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎07-31-2025

@dinomitesales wrote:
@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Curious to know going forward how they are treating documents or photos in envelopes marked do not bend with cardboard reinforcement with no declared value? There are still some folks shipping actual prints and signed documents by mail. And don't even want to consider no charge samples. Whole other can of worms.
There's no reason why a rigid mailer would raise any flags. Rigid mailers are a common method of sending documents of importance so they don't get bent; Canada Post themselves sell rigid document mailers specifically for the purpose of mailing Lettermail/Letter-post, as do many other retailers and postal services.

They're only going to scrutinize it if there's something that leads them to believe there might be goods of value inside. For example, having a suspicious business name as a return address; having stickers or personalized markings on the exterior of the envelope indicating the contents might contain a purchase; using eBay tape or eBay branded rigid mailers; or reinforcing the rigid mailer with something even more rigid so it can't be flexed even a little bit.

@dinomitesales

@sapphyres-designer-jewellery

@fergua3

I've been using rigid mailers to ship to USA when feasible for a few years. Prior to that it was bubble envelops with token do not bend stickers when applicable and reinforcing cardboard. Using eBay tape???....Cough cough!!!

The big concern in all of this is when postal employees use "their best judgement" and they guess wrong. It's going to become luck of the draw. Like all the sellers that have been challenging the system with sports cards, postcards and stamps. Similar thing in play with border officials except they have the power to xray, open and physically inspect. In past years though when customs opened to inspect they resealed with customs tape. Unsure if this is still happening. CP employees can only open if parcel is damaged or by a legal order.

Under the new world we live in has there been anything official, when in doubt, return?

Side sub story, years ago I had on 2 different occasions to get a tour of the sort plant in Winnipeg. Both times witnessed employees tossing items into the cloth bags from 20 feet. If they missed, they tried again. Probably something they never should be doing, but especially not when there customers are going through the plant...on tours.

As for what is being returned as per customs shippers should be seeing something like this on their package. Note: Flag was missing tariff number. From the reports on here doesn't seem that is always what is happening.