Buyer won a dispute and what can I do to prevent further loss?

[tt1217654386_1]

Hello everyone, I live in Canada and sold a leather jacket to the United States. I provided the exact measurements for the chest, shoulders, sleeve length, and garment length, but the buyer requested a return refund and payment dispute because the arms were too tight. I asked eBay to review the case, but they still sided with the buyer. I'm not sure if this is reasonable. When I tried to start an appeal, the system informed me that it was already the final decision. Now, what should I do? If the buyer requires me to pay for the return shipping, I will lose both shipping costs and potentially face customs duties for the return to Canada. This would be a significant loss for me. What can I do to minimize my losses as much as possible? Thank you all.

[mrdutch1001]

Be Aware that Having a "NO return" policy does not mean NO Refunds!...eBay rules!

[byto253]

Did the buyer file for a return at their request, or file an Item Not As Described (INAD)?   I get the feeling this was an INAD.

[msau4301]

This is an unfortunate case. Even though you gave all the measurements (which would mostly be lengths) it is pretty hard to know how the arms will fit within the sleeve. Since it's a leather jacket they probably paid a decent amount for the jacket (and probably duty) and if they were not happy with how it fit on they would want to take advantage of eBay's "get what you were expecting or your money back" guarantee. The buyer was expecting the arms to fit better but sounds like otherwise was happy.

The only thing you could possibly do is offer a partial refund, the buyer may try it on again and see if it would be worth keeping at a lower price and at least you wouldn't lose your two shipping costs. Not sure how a return works in terms of duties owing.

I'm not sure how expensive the jacket was, but if I bought something fairly valuable and felt like it didn't fit me right I'd probably want to return it too. That's always been a problem when you buy clothing on line (from anywhere). If it was cheap enough I keep it with an "oh well" attitude but the more it costs not so much.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

There is nothing you can do to minimize your losses other than negotiate with the buyer and see if they will take a partial refund to keep the jacket. So if a return shipping label is $50, you could offer them $50 or more to close the return. I say "or more", because not having to deal with the return and then re-sell the jacket might be worth more than the cost of the label. 

People get caught off guard by how eBay works. It underscores the importance of reading the terms of any platform that you choose to sell on.

eBay is not a good platform for casual sellers to sell high liability items. High liability meaning, an item that will cost you a lot of money if the buyer decides to (in good faith or in bad faith) open an "item not as described" (INAD) return.

eBay does not arbitrate disputes in the way you think. They aren't going to look at evidence and say "Well, the jacket looks like it was the correct size, no refund". When a buyer opens an INAD return, the seller has to provide a return shipping label, and then provide a refund when the buyer returns the item. There is no way around this. It is how the platform works. You can report a buyer after the fact if you believe they abused the buyer protection, but this doesn't absolve you from having to respond to the case with a return label and refund. All it does is put a black mark on the buyer's account, and if large number of sellers report them they will be removed from the program.

Your only way around this is to hope the buyer is bluffing or too lazy to return the item, provide a return shipping label, and then wait for the return to time out. If they don't use the label by the deadline, you can contact eBay to close the case. With international transactions, you can also ask buyers to get you a quote for a label from USPS, and then you send them the cost of the label. Some buyers won't want to do this, and the return might time out.

If you don't respond to the return with a full refund, an attempt to provide a shipping label, or a partial refund that is accepted by the buyer, eBay will close it and refund the buyer. You will get a defect on your account. The buyer will get to keep the item and the refund.

Going back to my point about reading the terms and services for a platform. I get it when people sell a $20 item, they aren't going to deep dive into how the platform works. But if you sell anything substantial, you should read all the help pages about buyer and seller protection.

Ultimately, eBay is NOT a good platform for casually selling expensive items that cost a lot to ship. As someone who has sold close to 20k items in the last few years, I find it to be a great platform for my needs, but if a friend or family member came to me and said that I have an expensive clothing item, a game console, a graphics card, etc, I would say only use eBay as a last resort because the return policy is extremely buyer friendly with a very long return window and if something goes wrong you could end up losing a lot of money. Something like Kijiji, Facebook marketplace, or even a local consignment shop would be a better platform for a casual seller. 

[easoss]

Clothing as well as hats are tricky business. It doesn't take much for a buyer to become unsatisfied. I had a lot of soccer jerseys and listed them on local marketplace and 80% of them sold at good prices. You really don't have any options in this case. 

[byto253]

Weird, your eBay messages do not show up when I open the thread.  I did read them from the main page and that helps understand the situation.    I have had a similar situation and here are some ideas.   What I am not sure on is that when eBay agreed with the buyer, did it become an Item Not As Described (INAD) or was the decision to allow the buyer to return the item at their expense?  

Some ideas for both situations.  This is a bit long, so patience please!

- The buyer's original message is very reasonable and not claiming the item was different than described, just want to return it.   In a case like this, I would say no problem and invite them to open a return.  Even if the listing indicates no returns, buyers can request it but you have the option to decline.    It is very similar to a camera I sold and the person said exactly as described, just did not like it ($130).  

I accepted the return for 2 reasons.  The first is that it locked the buyer into having to pay return shipping.  If you decline a return they can turn around and do an INAD claim that is at your expense and leave bad feedback, as it reverts to a normal sale status again.  I try to avoid that as much as possible.  Better to take something back on the buyer's dime than pay for shipping.  Also, when they buyer returns it you do not have to refund the shipping you originally paid - that is at your discrection. 

Reason 2 is that a lot of  return requests do not get actioned.  Either the buyer is fishing for a partial refund or they don't realize what the cost to return an item is, and they actually have to go to the post office!  Bit of a shock to them and they keep it.   This year I sold about 350 items and had 4 return requests.  2 buyers did not return the item in the required window, and the case closed in my favour and I kept the funds.   

In the case of a return from the US no duty or tariff charges are applicable as it is a return and not a sale.  To avoid issues with this, the buyer needs to mark the customs forms as a return, and try to get they buyer to ship with USPS.  Americans love UPS but UPS are scummy when it comes to cross border charges.  In the case of my camera the buyer spent $30US to ship it back by UPS and then UPS wanted about $45 from me for tariff and fees.  I refused at the door telling the delivery guy it was a return and not a sale (package indicated that too) and he directed me to call UPS brokerage.  After a drawn out process that included me doing a CBSA Form BSF715 and driving to a Canada Customs I got the fees waived and camera delivered.   So just be aware of this possibility regardless of who pays for shipping.   I have more details in my response to this thread (7th response or so). 

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Taxes-customs-fees-on-package-returns-to-Canada/m-p/5254...

- If it is an INAD your shipping across the border is going to be pricey of course.  Be sure to use USPS and not a courier to avoid the BS charges.  

There is another option that I use at times for large items, and as it appears you are in Montreal, this may be feasible.  I am in Ottawa and have items delivered to a business in Ogdensburg, NY where I can pick them up and bring them across the border.    Champlain, NY has a UPS store, and I am sure there are others in Champlain, that will do the same service.   It is an hour drive each way from Montreal, so a PITA but sometimes less painful.   Shipping costs to a UPS store in the US will be MUCH less than the cross border shipment.     Totally personal choice wheter to invest that much time.    If you do decide to pick up your item in the US print out your messages, eBay pages regarding the sale and return and you will clear fine without any charges - though they will not likely ask when you say you are picking up a return and have a fistful of papers. 

The one I use in Ogdensburg is https://myusaddress.ca/   What I like is that they will hold a package for 1 year for $5US, UPS is usually a week or 2.  They will also reship it to the US if I want to.  I did this with a returned very heavy set of Magna books a couple of years ago -  so had a return from the US to Ogdensburg, then sold them on eBay to a US customer and had Ogdensburg ship them to the new US buyer.    

It is likely that the reship service is offered by UPS but you will need to call and check.   If you did this with your jacket, as it is sitting in the US you can list it on .com with the location being Champlain or Ogdensburg, NY so there are no tariff fears or concerns as it is not a foreign sale.    

The risk of using the reship services is you are relying on the buyer acceptably packing the return and it not having damage to the item since you do not get to inspect it before resale. 

Hope this made sense!  Best of luck.     

[flipistics]

@byto253  @tt1217654386_1  You can also use a service like Shippsy. For returns through them (or business purchases), I believe you do need an import license attached to your CRA business account though (also a CARM account).

[byto253]

Shippsy is a new one for me, too bad for me that they are only in the Toronto/London area in Ontario.  The price of $9/$10 for 50 lbs. to bring it across the border and they take care the brokerage sounds very decent.  

Good news for the OP is that they have a location in Montreal so shipping the return to Shippsy and having them forward it for pickup in Montreal is a nice option.   I would call them regarding the situation that it is an eBay return so they can confirm there will not be an issue with no custom charges.  

[reallynicestamps]

dispute because the arms were too tight.

I have the same problem as your buyer with online garment purchases. Tight arms. 

So I sympathize with the disappointed buyer.

Your error was in asking eBay to step in

Not every transaction will go perfectly.

What you should have done was sent the return shipping* and refunded on arrival.

Yes you would be out shipping both ways.

But you would have the jacket back for relist (adding the arm dimensions) and to resell. 

potentially face customs duties for the return to Canada.

NO.

The buyer should mark the shipment as Returned Merchandise. 
If they also include the original invoice, so much the better.

And this is why you are polite and professional with complaints even if you are right.

* Yes you can purchase USPS shipping labels from Canada. I have used Shippo.com and there are others. 

[byto253]

When you indicate:

  "What you should have done was sent the return shipping* and refunded on arrival.

Yes you would be out shipping both ways."

Are you referring to after eBay ruled in the buyer's favour?  If so, agree that the return should have been arranged right away.

If it was after the initial message, before eBay involvement, I would have said I would accept a return and directed the buyer to open a return case.  Then they would have to pay for return shipping.

It is not clear from the OP if the eBay ruling was basically an INAD ruling or if it was to say the seller had to accept a buyer initiated return.  I am guessing it is INAD but the OP has not confirmed.  

[tt1217654386_1]

Hello, he filed it as INAD but he claimed my measurements were correct just the arm is too tight, but he expoited the INAD to against me which makes me angry

[tt1217654386_1]

Thank you so much for the detailed information, I'm still waiting for eBay's second review because the buyer is indeed abusing INAD. I saw on Reddit that another seller had the same situation, and after eBay's review, they refunded the initial shipping cost.

[byto253]

Please let us know the outcome.