Just got called a "scammer" over the tariffs on packages to the US...

[sapphyres-designer-jewellery]

I sold an item a couple of days ago. It's actually a USA medallion, so no tariffs regardless. There's nothing in my title that says anything about tariffs or not, but the buyer got the idea when they bought there would be no tariffs on their order.

At some point between payment and now, the buyer saw something on the listing that said tariffs would be due upon delivery. 

Also the buyer was told their item would be there by Jan 13th when they looked at the listing, and now eBay tells them they can't file an INR until January 28.

So due to all of the above which eBay is doing, suddenly I'm a scammer and the buyer wants their money back and plans to leave negative feedback. FWIW, the order probably will arrive by Jan 13 since I ship with Stallion.

Any shipments with Stallion or Canada post have tariffs prepaid (so the buyer doesn't pay), but regardless, it's a US medallion! So being manufactured in the US there's no tariffs. (I don't go there about where things are made relating to tariffs since Stallion is collecting those, so it's irrelevant for the discussion whether or not an item has tariffs, they have to be prepaid).

Anyway I (as calmly as possible) explained to the buyer how I ship, that there are no tariffs, and eBay is giving a long delivery time because the item is coming from Canada, therefore it can take 2-3 weeks to clear US Customs (which is evident from posts made in December in this forum), but due to the fact I ship with Stallion they will clear the item across the border in 2-3 days, and then it goes USPS.

I did not refund the buyer their money, I'm not going to go and give them a refund so they can leave negative feedback. But the time they can file an INR on the item it will have been delivered and they'll figure out (I hope) that I'm not scamming them (and that they didn't have to pay tariffs on delivery).

No reply from the buyer yet, I would take that as a good sign.

C.

[mrdutch1001]

and as long Canadian sellers keep feeding the Animal his beloved Revenge Tariffs, there will be no resolve to the countless issues encountered by shipping to the USA...

[vintage_america]

I don’t have a UPS account. They are not paying the tariffs. They are collecting them from American buyers. If the buyers refuse to pay tariffs, the packages get returned with no tariffs owing. As is logical.

[recped]

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@vintage_america wrote:
I don’t have a UPS account. They are not paying the tariffs. They are collecting them from American buyers. If the buyers refuse to pay tariffs, the packages get returned with no tariffs owing. As is logical.

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You do not understand how cross border shipping actually works.

When UPS takes a shipment across the border they declare and pay any tariffs at the point of entry. The "Trump Tariffs" are non-refundable. If UPS needs to RTS you the shipper will be on the hook for the tariffs, the brokerage fee both ways, probably GST/HST on the return (an ITC if you are registered or if not then directly out of your pocket).

Even in the case of a zero tariff UPS will charge a brokerage fee BOTH ways and that brokerage fee will be at a minimum 5 times as much as the Zonos fee. If tariffs are payable then the brokerage fee will be even higher.

"logical" does not exist when it comes to "Trump Tariffs".

[vintage_america]

No, there is no brokerage fee for non-tariffed items. If the item was made in USA or is a non-tariffed item it goes straight through to the buyer. No fee. To anyone. This MAY depend on the value, but in my case no customers have been charged any fees on these items.

And no, UPS (so far) has not been charging tariffs on RTS. Not to me. Which means they are either not paying it themselves (why would they?) or they are waiving them since they took the risk in doing so. First option is more logical.

As their site says, if you do not have a UPS account the shipments are DDU. If buyer refuses tariff, we “MAY” ask sender to pay if RTS.

DDU means delivered unpaid. So where are you seeing that UPS pays the tariffs? Please link to any official statement confirming that they pay the tariff upfront.

[flipistics]

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@vintage_america wrote:

And no, UPS (so far) has not been charging tariffs on RTS. Not to me. Which means they are either not paying it themselves (why would they?) or they are waiving them since they took the risk in doing so. First option is more logical.

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They don't have a choice. The US Government has mandated that all items crossing the border must have the (non-refundable) duties prepayed. They can either offer only DDP options, or they can continue to offer DDU options and prepay the tariffs, then claw the money back from either the recipient or the sender after. According to what other people have posted, sometimes it can be many months before those bills are filed.

[vintage_america]

I keep hearing that. But so far it has yet to materialize. And it’s been since August.

I understand the general consensus here is that UPS is pre-paying tariffs. I just have not seen that. If there is any written clarification it would be nice to have. I’ve called their customer support and they verified what I am saying. The duties/tariffs are collected upon delivery from the buyer and they are not pre-paid by UPS.

If that’s incorrect, then why would the 4 RTS I’ve dealt with since August be returned with no tariffs owing? I was charged the shipping costs but that’s it. If you’re saying they may still bill me tariffs 6 months later I kind of doubt that. But who knows?

If it’s true that UPS is pre-paying tariffs, where is this clarified?

[vintage_america]

Here’s some clarification from AI anyway:


Delivery Duty Unpaid (DDU) or regular import shipments
• UPS does not prepay in this case.
• They clear the shipment and bill the recipient (or shipper if recipient doesn’t pay).
• Technically, UPS is acting as a broker: they may submit the customs documentation but the duties are only charged to the buyer/recipient upon delivery. This is not prepayment, just billing upon delivery.

⸻

Key point

Most consumer shipments from outside the U.S. are DDU by default — meaning UPS does not prepay, they just notify the recipient and charge upon delivery. Prepayment only happens if the shipper explicitly selects DDP or similar “taxes included” service.

[marnotom!]

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@vintage_america wrote:

Here’s some clarification from AI anyway:

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My AI says something different.  😋

[vintage_america]

lol. Ya it’s clear as mud, isn’t it? Different sources saying different things.

My takeaway is that UPS will sometimes prepay and sometimes not. I’m even getting that on AI searches as well. It likely depends on value and whether customs form and HS code were entered correctly etc.

So in my experience they did not pre-pay on the ones I know of. Perhaps they do on others. It’s all messed up.

[dinomitesales]

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@vintage_america wrote:
I keep hearing that. But so far it has yet to materialize. And it’s been since August.

I understand the general consensus here is that UPS is pre-paying tariffs. I just have not seen that. If there is any written clarification it would be nice to have. I’ve called their customer support and they verified what I am saying. The duties/tariffs are collected upon delivery from the buyer and they are not pre-paid by UPS.

If that’s incorrect, then why would the 4 RTS I’ve dealt with since August be returned with no tariffs owing? I was charged the shipping costs but that’s it. If you’re saying they may still bill me tariffs 6 months later I kind of doubt that. But who knows?

If it’s true that UPS is pre-paying tariffs, where is this clarified?

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Are you buying the UPS shipping labels through eBay Labels? If so, make sure you're auditing your payment summary regularly - I would recommend weekly at minimum. If you're actively selling things you may not even notice if eBay comes back and deducts additional fees on a UPS transaction. Make sure every line item is accounted for. They could come back to you months later for any additional fees owing on the transaction.

Historically, DDU has been just that: Delivered Duties Unpaid. Collected from the buyer at the point of delivery. And that's still how it works for the majority of countries on the planet. The USA is different now - as @flipistics mentioned, they aren't even allowing packages into the country until the import duty/fees have been paid to the government. This is all still very new. We still call it "DDU" because there is no better term for it, and calling it "DDP" would be confusing as it's different than what is typically thought of as "DDP".

[vintage_america]

Ya. I hear you. Seems UPS is a bit of a mystery still with some shipments. Not good at all. I do monitor the payments. Nothing unusual there from ups.

[darak10]

sorry to hear that.  I had one the other day who said "thanks for understanding" after asking me to eat the Trump tax by dropping the price the same amount as the tariff "as I dont want to pay it".   Can you believe these people?!? no wonder they elected this guy, 70 million of them also have similarly vacant craniums.  

[sapphyres-designer-jewellery]

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@darak10 wrote:

sorry to hear that.  I had one the other day who said "thanks for understanding" after asking me to eat the Trump tax by dropping the price the same amount as the tariff "as I dont want to pay it".   Can you believe these people?!? no wonder they elected this guy, 70 million of them also have similarly vacant craniums.  

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I get very excited when I have a non-US order for some things that are really good... I'll send a message to the shop to tell them how much we're getting for something (like silver coins) and add something like "they're going to Japan, so no tariffs!!"

We ship DDP, so we need to get the tariff out of what we receive in the sale (or the shipping), they balked at paying more in shipping so I had to raise prices of the item. I sell lots of CUSMA items though to the US, and that's OK. When I get something with higher tariff and it's not going to the US, I think that's great.

C.

[byto253]

Hmm, if I am going to drop the price that much I will list it for Canada only and give someone else a deal.  

[sapphyres-designer-jewellery]

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@byto253 wrote:

Hmm, if I am going to drop the price that much I will list it for Canada only and give someone else a deal.  

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That's kind of how I feel. I got a message on my Canadian store that went along the lines of "you don't ship to the US?" Um, well, the Canadian store is for Canadians, so prices on things do not account for tariffs that US buyers are making me pre-pay to ship to them. I welcome shipments to other countries where I don't pay tariffs.

C.